Yes! Thanks again for putting meat to otherwise meatless ideas on CP. Why can't we focus on starting movements of God empowered by the Spirit that produce a community! When did God run out of money? When did he target people? I thought He sorta had a thing for the nations of the world, not just one segment? Pray that God will build in Kingdom in us first and through us second to the ends of the earth!

You lost me at "If you'll excuse my language,..." That is about as Christian as the gossips that start out with "I probably shouldn't say this but..."

You attempted to strengthen the message and instead weakened it. I can't believe no one else took issue with that. We are called to live in the world but not be of the world.

We all slip, we all make mistakes, but this was written, this had opportunity to edit and correct, and you chose to be dramatic instead of spiritual.

I encourage you to keep seeking God, and keep trying to bring people to know Him. That part of your message is laudable, but don't allow your message to be filtered through the world, in content or in language.

Nice approach liken it to proverbs 3: go ahead and trust In the Lord for your provision! Have a vision to win the lost people in your community and watch God bring in the provision for the ministry…..

KNOW THE VISION, WORK THE VISION, AND THE VISION WILL WORK!

I don't mean to be nit-picky, but the pub you meet in is part of the dna of your community. You seem to take a bit of pride in the 'non traditional' venue, and that is OK, but it can be summed up in 3 words... location, location, location. But I do agree that it doesn't have to be on the corner of so and so in the sub division of wherever. Good article.

I only wish I could get others (in the church plant I'm involved with) to see the money part. It always seems to be the focus.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

As a missionary in West Africa, I don't know how similar our work is to yours, but I do know that you fall on your face if you don't know your audience (well often you fall on your face anyway, but you usually know why). I agree that "determining" a target audience is a bit artificial or even manipulative, but knowing or learning from them is essential isn't it?

When did church planting take on such a corporate approach? When did size, budget and program offerings become the sole measuring stick for success? As a Vineyard church planter here in the US, I don't know a lot about big start up money. I do know a lot about being bi-vocational and eating a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I was once told that it is really easy to draw a crowd (using big money, target audiences, specific programs and the like) but much harder to build a church. Crowds tend to disappoint. Crowds tend to demand a lot. Crowds tend to leave through the back door. Churches, on the other hand have the opportunity to change lives. That's what I signed up for. That is why I'm willing to sacrifice and eat the occasional peanut butter and jelly sandwich. We need to stop looking at what the world deems successful and start looking at what Christ considers successful. I would rather be a part of a church plant that has financial struggles and last only a year, but changes one person’s life for the Kingdom of God, then be a part of the “greatest show on earth.”

What can I say other than Amen to that brother!!! I'm a church planter here in the UK where we certianly don't get money up front to plant and wehre the numbers are real small but the more I'm doing it the more I realise it's about allowing God to work in individuals and discovering God together, enjoying worshipping Him in the joint celebrations and seeing lives get changed through people encountering Jesus for themselves through community. I know you have some real 'successful' mega churches out there in the US but I just hate the whole corporate America feel to it at times...don't get me wrong we need to do what we do to the best of our ability & resources but I really do believe great things can be done with small things.

Yes! Thank you very much for giving a human face to these pseudocorporate ideas. I've been part of a church plant community for a couple of years and find you're right on target. Especially when it comes to money. And it should be about planting (or forming) community not buildings. If you don't have the focus on the call of God and the forming of real community, you'll burn out real fast. Above all, you've made the case that it is about the often sloppy, all too human work of God's people and not a set of "get successful quick" rules. Many thanks.