I'm going to have to agree with T.J. What is the point of drinking alcohol in this day and age? Surely there is a good selection of non-alcoholic drinks out there, is there not? The only reason I can think of to drink alcohol is to get drunk. I like the taste of cocktails, but what's the point, when I can get the same taste without the alcohol? Seriously, why?

With respect - I would have liked for you to show scripture to us where Jesus drank. You cannot because there is no such scripture. In scripture, not all references to wine were fermented or intoxicating beverage. When communion was taken Jesus said "the cup" or "fruit of the vine" which then was clusters of grapes from the vine (no more than grape juice). And before you think it - no, Jesus did not refer to all wine as fruit of the vine - I know this because He had no problem referring to wine in other scripture such as Matthew 9:17 where Jesus states "Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out....." Which, by the way, Jesus did not take the communion Himself - In Mark 4:25 Jesus states "Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God." The kingdon of God (meaning Heaven) - and do you really think that intoxicating drink will be in Heaven? Also, at the Cana of Galilee Wedding when Jesus turned water to wine (not clusters of grapes, but wine), He was doing so at the request of his blessed mother and if He had not obeyed her - He would not have been honoring her which would have been a sin (commandment). But, even here scripture does not say that Jesus drank the wine or that He instructed anyone else to drink the wine. Now concerning Timothy being instructed to drink water no longer, but to drink wine - scripture 1 Timothy 5:23 says "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." In other words for medicine. Finally, Leviticus 10:8-10 God commanded the High Priest not to drink wine. Therefore, Jesus being the Highest Priest would not have been permitted to drink wine. Mark 15:23 Jesus would not even accept a drink of wine just before He was nailed to the cross. I am not condemming anyone - the Bible tells us to work out our own salvation - if you choose to drink wine with dinner or whatever that is your free will - BUT PLEASE DO NOT SAY JESUS DRANK WINE! I would advice people to please not follow man, but study out scripture and pray for wisdom and knowledge concerning everything. You cannot afford the price of being wrong and even if drinking wine with dinner is not a heaven or hell issue why let something like wine or beer separate you from what is really important. I guarantee you this - when you have a real relationship with Christ - He will direct you in all your ways.

I have to say that when I read this article, it gave me a sigh of relief..."ah yes! It is okay for me to drink". I have been struggling with this issue for some time. Since I have become a christian this has been an area where I have struggled. I use to make logical arguments making it okay that I drink. As I have become closer and closer to the Lord, I have become more convicted of it. But the question isn't whether It is okay to drink or not...the question is why does it bother me so when I do drink? I believe that God convicts individuals in ways to make them uncomfortable with the ways they are living so that they seek him more. I believe that the reason I have questioned this and why I have struggled with it is because it is wrong and it keeps me from growing closer to Him. If drinking keeps you from thinking on God, or spending meditation time with him...I believe it is wrong. I want to say, yes it is okay for me to drink every now and then as long as I don't get drunk...but I am still not comfortable with that... I guess each to his own.

As for the two meanings of wine, I agree. I disagree with Tom in that God wouldn't use the same word because it would confuse us...well, he most likely didn't use the same word, our English translation only allows for one word description in contrast to other complex language which it originated.

As for causing my brother to stumble...I feel that if we as christians are here for the sole purpose of the great commission..we need to determine whether our partaking in alcohol will increase or decrease the likelihood that nonchristians when looking on at our so called "christian" lives..will see us as different from themselves or of the same.

I was a Southern Baptist for 44 years I served in as a pastor for 17 of those years and I have been in many pastor meetings. I see a large majority of men overweight throwing their rocks at alcohol yet filling their stomachs with pies, cakes, cookies, and lots of food. To me that's gluttony. How can you single out one sin and not the others...? Maybe it's to make yourself feel more righteous... just my thoughts.--Doug

Why in the world does booze even have to be on the radar screen of any Christ follower? Sure it was at the last supper....ok...have it at communion....not at Applebee's...I mean..in Jesus day pure drinking water (bottled, no less) was not part of their world. They drank the fruit of the vine...sometimes like juice..other times fermented a little more and stronger........we use the line... well Jesus drank wine" to JUSTIFY why we SECRETLY want to GET BUZZED.....we're told not to BE DRUNK....well...slam back a couple of brewskies and you're drunk even if you're not wobbling as you walk.....the bottom line is....YOU CAN LIVE WITHOUT DRINKING....you can...you really can....just like you can live without VISITING STARBUCKS.....YOU CAN.....but if you drink, you're gonna wobble...if you drink too much starbucks you'll get hyper.....I think it all comes down to CHRISTIANS WANT TO DRINK AND FEEL JUSTIFIED IN DOING IT....lay it down and walk free, man.

Paul upbraided the Corinthians in 1Co 11:21 because they were getting drunk at their Lord's Supper get togethers. If he was against alcohol he would have said something like 'and I hear that you are serving real wine at your Lord's Supper feasts. Shame on you!'

The best way to deal with this 'issue' is to acknowledge that the Bible doesn't condemn it. It's ok for most as long as they aren't doing in front of someone that is caused to stumble by the act. For some, who are addicted or can't stop once they start, it is not ok for them to do it. There will always be legalistic people around who crave the prideful feelings that comes from keeping a stringent set of rules. Jesus called those type 'white washed tombs.' They look great on the outside but they are nasty on the inside. Oh well, God bless you all. See ya.

Well, I can see his point to certain degree. Sure, Jesus made water into wine. But there were various types of wine ehwn you look at the original Greek and Hebrew words used. You had the Hebrew word "tirosh" which was wine that had not been firmented. In fact, when you look at what was used in the last supper, it was akin to "tirosh." The Bible never speaks negatively of "tirosh." On the other hand "yayin," firmented wine, was spoken negatively against regularly.

Now, in the Greek it gets a little bit more "grey." In the Greek, the word "oinos" is used. Oinos doesn't clearly speak to firmented or unfirmented fruits. In fact, it speaks to all kinds of beverages. Which could be corn liquor, grape juice, apple juice and the like. This why this word gets kind of screwy for us in the English language because we didn't have words that completely matched the original Greek. In all of this, it was just translated "wine." I mean if all wine mentioned Biblically was "alcoholic beverage" then the Holy Spirit would have been contradicting himself when He inspired Paul to tell Timothy to "take some wine for thy stomach's sake" then turn around and tell him that those desiring the office of a "bishop" (better translated "overseer" which speaks directly to senior leadership) should "not be given to wine." He makes a distinction between overseers and deacons by saying deacons shouldn't be "given to MUCH wine." So based on that either its a direct contradiction, or "oinos" wasn't referring to the same thing in the 2 passages. I think the latter.

Drinking is a touchy subject in the church because of what gets lost in translation from the original Greek and Hebrew to our insufficient English language. In terms of LEADERSHIP roles, I would use 1st Timothy 3 as a rule of thumb. And based on that, the Baptists kind of have a leg to stand on about the subject. Now, if they would address gluttony so feverishly - we'd be in BUSINESS!

I get the feeling Mr. Mohler and his Southern Baptists counterparts might have a hard time with my being a worship pastor by day and bartender by night! haha But is all seriousness, this is really sad. I don't understand it either. It befuddles me. How can anyone read the word and come to these conclusions? How do read Jesus and land on blacklisting partakers of the beverage? How did we get so far off?

This is the situation with the church today. We make small issues huge and neglect to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with.

I have grown up in an a/g church all my life and their stand on drinking is the same as almost every other church out there. "Christians shouldn't drink*.

I have heard a lot of preachers argue the fact that the wine Jesus made at the wedding in Cana was in fact unfermented wine or that when the Bible talks about wine as in getting drunk it means fermented and when it says wine as in take some for your stomach it means unfermented.

Here is the problem with these two arguments. First off, if you study Jewish history you will begin to understand the culture and context in which the Bible was written.

The Jews drank wine with almost every meal and in doing so weather they had 1 or 3 glasses of wine they understood what good wine was. If the Jews would have been served Grape Juice (unfermented wine) or Vinegar (Over fermented wine) then they would have been disgusted with instead of pleased with the wine Jesus created.

In response to the second statement referring to the different meanings of the same word we all know God by His nature is not the author of confusion, so in saying this why would he use the word "wine" to mean two different things? If He did such a thing it would be in contradiction to His very nature.

This is why I enjoy how the Apostle Paul handled this type of situation when he faced it with the Roman church.

In Romans 14, Paul begins talking about his convictions and the convictions of others.

He says in essence, people have their own convictions respect them but don't let them force their convictions on you. What you do keep between you and God.

If you do something and feel bad about it then it shouldn't be done because it is not being done in faith. Anything not done in Faith is a sin.

Paul goes on to say throughout his epistles, “All I know is Christ crucified, buried, and resurrected.

We as Christians need to quit arguing and shutting doors on people because of small things and need to concentrate on seeing others come to the saving knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Heather, Al Mohler actually talked about the Timothy passage ("take a little wine for your stomach")on one of his radio programs. He actually admitted that the wine Paul was talking about was fermented, because fermentation killed the bad bugs in the water, which what was probably giving Timothy his stomaches; the water in those days was notorious. Secondly, the maitre'd at the Cana event mentioned that the good wine is usually served first, but he noticed that Jesus' wine was the best yet. Obviously, the reason for saying this was that after your first few glasses, you don't really notice the flavor so much because of the effects, hinting at the fact that the wine had alcohol. All this to say that the alcohol content today of some wines (including those that come from Southeast Australia in the Barossa Valley) have 15-16% alcohol which is 3-5 times greater than that of the wines typical back then.

Are you serious??? It is amazing how someone can take the sin of gluttony or out of control anger and try to help them justify their weakness in another area. It makes me wonder if people are so unsettled on "easy" issues where do they really stand on more serious issues. The comments that followed this article are an interesting read as well..."It would be a social slap in the face not to accept a beer from your neighbor" How about taking social skills and turning it around into a positive oppurtunity for Christ" Are we so socially weak that we need to fit in? God help us!

I love living in Milwaukee, Brew City, Wisconsin. When I was doing youth ministry, my wife and I were invited over for dinner at one of our student's homes. When we arrived, her church attending parents offered me a beer before dinner. I have to admit it was a little wierd and they only had light beer. I love getting together with freinds over a nice brew every now and then.

While growing up in pentecostal (mostly AOG Australia) churches, it was always explained to me that even though the same word is used in the New Testament, it can mean both alcoholic and non-alcoholic wine.

So it's all a matter of interpretation, so obviously when it is mentioned in a bad light (eg. "Do not be drunk with wine", "not given to much wine") it means alcoholic wine, but when it is mentioned in a good light (eg. Jesus' miracle at the wedding, "take a little wine for your stomach") it means non-alcoholic wine.

I now drink wine, to the horror of my mother, because I see that whole argument as ridiculous. However, the argument still stands and that is how many christians stand by their assertion neither Jesus or the disciples never made or drank (alcoholic) wine, and it is a sin to do so.

Chip, while I don't keep close tabs on everything Roman Catholic, I'm pretty sure that if a married Orthodox priest converts to the Roman Catholic Eastern Rite (which happens from time to time), the vow of celibacy is not required. Cam had an interesting point. Jesus would also have many doors closed to him in SBC ministry because he chose to be single and celibate. Protestants do have a tendency to ignore the fact that Jesus and Paul both treated that as a special calling given to some.

Setting aside all other arguments regarding beverage alcohol, I am curious what 1% of ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention WOULD yield "open doors" to those who "are associated with the use of beverage alcohol". Are the portions of ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention which are either insignificant enough or morally questionable enough to allow room for someone who is excluded from the other 99%? Seems to me that if association with the use of beverage alcohol disqualifies one from ministry in the Southern Baptist Ministry, it should disqualify ministry at the 100% level. Wouldn't that be similar to the Catholic Church accepting priests who don't practice celibacy, for 1% of their parishes?

"Why should you never invite a Baptist to go fishing? Because he will drink all your beer. But if you invite TWO Baptists,neither one will touch a drop!" I have pastored SBC churches and of course never drank. Still don't like the stuff except for a little wine sometime. But even though many would not like to exclude Jesus from their ministry,they MUST do so, because the entire membership is traditionally bound to what they call "The Church Covenant", which forevermore has been their written standard of behavior. I dare say it would be easier to do away with the "Baptist Faith and Message" doctrinal statement than to mess with the revered, though legalistic, "church covenant." It's too bad that SBC is caught in such hypocrisy, but there it is! Great article!

GREAT article! I have to say that Dan brings a ton of things to light that is probably bigger problems within a pastor or minister's personal life. I have seen too many times where church boards, elders, or senior pastors [of their staff] allowed them to become workaholics to a bigger detriment to their family than alcohol would be. Again great article! www.completinggodsmission.com

I am with Cam in wondering whether Mohler was just calling it like he sees it or something else...

Also, Dan, I have actually never heard the "cause a brother to stumble" argument used in the way describe. I have always heard it applied to other believers. That is the way I have interpreted Romans 14, as if it were all directed to fellowship among believers. With that in mind, I have often decided not to have a glass of wine or a beer around other Christians that I thought would have a problem with it. When I'm sitting in my neighbor's driveway, around the grill, refusing a beer that he offers to me is a bit of a social slap in the face. I have one with him, I don't with my believer friends that might be offended. Very interesting that your experience with that argument refers to people "outside" the church. Thanks for the article.

Great article. Actually, there would not be a need to single out Southern Baptists. The observations would be true in many conservative/evangelical denominations. We cringe at the thought of alcohol while many pastors more than "fill" their pulpits.

Was Mohler just stating a sad fact or drawing a line in the sand? I so love line in the sand. Like Dan, I have many godly southern(-hemisphere) Baptist friends, but can honestly say that about 75-80% of all ministry doors are closed to single men, thus again disqualifying Jesus. This, sadly, 'just the way things are' and is not necessarily seen as the way things should be.